I totally admire the concept of this project, and I think you made really thoughtful decisions and backed them up with simple and logical explanations. If Billy had you guys as producers, this would have been a stronger album. I absolutely adore this album, but it is definitely bloated. But the bloat doesn't bother me; in fact, it's sort of part of the concept. It's a dreamy, bipolar record that perfectly captures the madness and self-indulgence of the teenage mind.
This version is more palatable and more along the lines of a "perfect" album, like Siamese Dream, or even Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" or "Animals". Well done!!
After listening, and reading your article again, I have to chime in with my personal opinion once more.
I think your choice of Stumbleine (and Billy's for that matter) is the only glaring error in this track list. While I think it's a very strong song, perhaps one of the best on Mellon Collie, I would not have included it for a few reasons. Mainly, I think the quality of the recording removes it from contention. It's a Sadlands demo, and it should never have been included in my opinion. It should have at least been re-recorded with the same arrangement. The tape dropouts (listen on headphones to the guitar shifting around the stereo field) are a dead giveaway of a low quality 4-track demo. Some artists get demo-itis, falling in love with their performance or production elements from their demo. If I had to guess, Billy probably felt he couldn't do better with his vocal performance, emotionally. Secondly, it's simply not strong enough to start the second side. WBFTT is an absolutely legendary disc/side opening track. It's perfectly slotted in as the first song of the second disc of the original.
Next point, I agree with most of your cuts, with the biggest exception being "In The Arms Of Sleep". This is not only an absolutely perfectly written song (the form is masterful), but it's arranged/produced with such a soft and haunting mood, that really enhances the song. The lyrics, the chords, the understated drums, the ebow guitars, and the bass line are so well-crafted and executed. I'm especially intrigued by the bass in this song. I recently used AI stem separation to analyze it, and there's here's really interesting factoid. In the main section (when the drums and bass kick in), the pitch of the third note of the bass line was digitally altered from G (root of the first chord), to A. This is out of key for the song, and is used as a passing tone to the F chord, the second chord of the main progression. But in the key of Eb, the second degree chord (F) is a minor chord, it's third would be Ab. Or if you consider it the second degree of the Gmin chord, it's been raised to a sharp 2. It's a very dissonant sound. Theoretically it should sound very unpleasant and out of place. The whole song is in Eb, all the chord choices indicate this (Gmin is the iii chord, Fmin is the ii chord, for example).
I just found it to be a cool tidbit, almost certainly done by Billy in post-production. He just couldn't resist putting his fingerprints on Darcy's bass part. Maybe he had a good reason for it(like it sounds cool and adds to the instability and eeriness of the song). If I ever meet him and have the opportunity to ask I'd love to know the answer. Ok, end theory rant.
I think I might have put ITAOS in place of Stumbleine. In the spirit of "b-sides are ok", Stumbleine belongs as a raw demo that never was really executed properly.
One more point. You mention an 80 minute CD. The Red Book standard (the official standard for CDs that all CD players must support) is 73 minutes and 33 seconds. I think I would not have worried about that. I would have used the "45 minute album" concept. 22-ish minutes per side of two LPs. It would have to be two CDs, but that would allow the CD and LP versions to align more closely (one CD per album).
OK, I'm done. Cheers and thank you for inspiring this conversation I'm having with myself :)
What a strange article. Sadly, this is what they had to do for machina. The actual machina album was supposed to be very different and longer with a different order of tracks
Not sure that the current reissue vinyl tracklist is a different order, but the original vinyl is different at least in that it has one extra song (I've owned this on cassette, compact disc, and the reissue vinyl). If feels criminal to cut "Love". I get cutting "In the Arms Of Sleep," but it was the first song I ever performed at open mic.
I totally admire the concept of this project, and I think you made really thoughtful decisions and backed them up with simple and logical explanations. If Billy had you guys as producers, this would have been a stronger album. I absolutely adore this album, but it is definitely bloated. But the bloat doesn't bother me; in fact, it's sort of part of the concept. It's a dreamy, bipolar record that perfectly captures the madness and self-indulgence of the teenage mind.
This version is more palatable and more along the lines of a "perfect" album, like Siamese Dream, or even Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" or "Animals". Well done!!
After listening, and reading your article again, I have to chime in with my personal opinion once more.
I think your choice of Stumbleine (and Billy's for that matter) is the only glaring error in this track list. While I think it's a very strong song, perhaps one of the best on Mellon Collie, I would not have included it for a few reasons. Mainly, I think the quality of the recording removes it from contention. It's a Sadlands demo, and it should never have been included in my opinion. It should have at least been re-recorded with the same arrangement. The tape dropouts (listen on headphones to the guitar shifting around the stereo field) are a dead giveaway of a low quality 4-track demo. Some artists get demo-itis, falling in love with their performance or production elements from their demo. If I had to guess, Billy probably felt he couldn't do better with his vocal performance, emotionally. Secondly, it's simply not strong enough to start the second side. WBFTT is an absolutely legendary disc/side opening track. It's perfectly slotted in as the first song of the second disc of the original.
Next point, I agree with most of your cuts, with the biggest exception being "In The Arms Of Sleep". This is not only an absolutely perfectly written song (the form is masterful), but it's arranged/produced with such a soft and haunting mood, that really enhances the song. The lyrics, the chords, the understated drums, the ebow guitars, and the bass line are so well-crafted and executed. I'm especially intrigued by the bass in this song. I recently used AI stem separation to analyze it, and there's here's really interesting factoid. In the main section (when the drums and bass kick in), the pitch of the third note of the bass line was digitally altered from G (root of the first chord), to A. This is out of key for the song, and is used as a passing tone to the F chord, the second chord of the main progression. But in the key of Eb, the second degree chord (F) is a minor chord, it's third would be Ab. Or if you consider it the second degree of the Gmin chord, it's been raised to a sharp 2. It's a very dissonant sound. Theoretically it should sound very unpleasant and out of place. The whole song is in Eb, all the chord choices indicate this (Gmin is the iii chord, Fmin is the ii chord, for example).
I just found it to be a cool tidbit, almost certainly done by Billy in post-production. He just couldn't resist putting his fingerprints on Darcy's bass part. Maybe he had a good reason for it(like it sounds cool and adds to the instability and eeriness of the song). If I ever meet him and have the opportunity to ask I'd love to know the answer. Ok, end theory rant.
I think I might have put ITAOS in place of Stumbleine. In the spirit of "b-sides are ok", Stumbleine belongs as a raw demo that never was really executed properly.
One more point. You mention an 80 minute CD. The Red Book standard (the official standard for CDs that all CD players must support) is 73 minutes and 33 seconds. I think I would not have worried about that. I would have used the "45 minute album" concept. 22-ish minutes per side of two LPs. It would have to be two CDs, but that would allow the CD and LP versions to align more closely (one CD per album).
OK, I'm done. Cheers and thank you for inspiring this conversation I'm having with myself :)
What a strange article. Sadly, this is what they had to do for machina. The actual machina album was supposed to be very different and longer with a different order of tracks
Not sure that the current reissue vinyl tracklist is a different order, but the original vinyl is different at least in that it has one extra song (I've owned this on cassette, compact disc, and the reissue vinyl). If feels criminal to cut "Love". I get cutting "In the Arms Of Sleep," but it was the first song I ever performed at open mic.